From Cow Pastures to Kosovo

Danny Dietz Memorial Re-dedication and the Traveling Vietnam Memorial - July 4th - Colorado

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 13:26:57 -0500

A quick update from Colorado while Uncle J and kev work on editing video.

Saying that we've been busy since I landed in Denver on Wednesday is definitely an understatement. kev was waiting for me when I landed. He whisked me off to an "undisclosed" location :) where we shared a few cocktails and discussed plans for Thursday. It's always good to see kev and Uncle J but intense it definitely an understatement.

Thursday morning we arrived bright and early at the site of the Traveling Vietnam Memorial in Thornton, CO so that we could video the arrival. The Patriot Guard Riders and Rolling Thunder provided a great escort.

PGR and RT Travling Vietnam Wall Thonton CO 4 July 08

PGR and RT Travling Vietnam Wall Thonton CO 3 July 08

WOW! The city has REALLY gone all out for this event. Major kudos to Thornton, CO and to the planning committee for their vision and amazing work. They have created a park from nothing. It is BEAUTIFUL! The city of Thornton pulled employees off of another park project to work on this AND they are using a lot of the landscaping materials earmarked for the new city park. After the Vietnam Memorial Wall leaves town the landscaping materials will go to the park where they were originally planned to be planted. AWESOME! Just darn awesome!

Volunteers working on Memorial park for Travling Vietnam Memorial Wall Thornton CO 1

They have park benches along the path of the Wall so that people can sit and reflect on the memories of those whose names appear on the Wall. The lighting, landscaping and all esthetic aspects could not be more perfect. The display will be opeb 24 hours through the holiday weekend.

Thursday afternoon we headed south to LIttleton, CO to meet with Dan and Cindy Dietz, parents of Navy Petty Officer 2nd Class Danny P. Dietz. Danny was one of the members of Seal Team 10 who perished in Operation Red Wing in Kunar Province, Afghanistan on 28 June 2005. I cannot begin to express in words what it was like to meet Dan and Cindy as well as Danny' s younger brother Eric. We spent several hours with them listening to them tell stories about Danny as he was growing up, his experience at BUDS, the amazing relationship he had with his widow, Patsy, and many other stories about the man he was. We threw some steaks on the grill and enjoyed dinner on their fabulous patio. Dan even entertained us by playing guitar and singing a song or two. The hours passed so quickly and it was difficult to leave. I'm so thankful to Dan, Cindy and Eric for inviting us into their home and for sharing so much of their lives and Danny's with us. We look forward to spending more time with them all.

This morning (Friday July 4th) we were up early again. We drove back down to Littleton to attend the re-dedication of the Memorial Statue of Danny.

Rededication of Danny Dietz Memorial Littleton CO 6 July 4 08

It was a very moving ceremony. The Patriot Guard Riders placed a wreath at the statue

PRG Wreath at rededication of Danny Dietz Memorial Littleton CO July 34 08

Cindy and Dan reminded everyone that although the Memorial is of Danny it represents all of those who have given their lives in service to our nation. I was touched at how respectful everyone was. Colorado U S Congressman Tom Tancredo (R) attended and offered some very poignant remarks.

We've returned to our "undisclosed" location so the boys could do a little video editing. Shortly we're off to the Vietnam Veteran's Traveling Wall event. More on that later.

I hope that everyone is having a safe and peaceful 4th of July and that you are taking time out of your day to remember those who have died for the freedoms we have and to say prayers of thanks and safety for those who are currently serving

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Happy 4th of July America!

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 22:47:01 -0500

I'm heading out to the airport to catch a flight to Denver in a few hours. I'm going to hook up with Uncle Jimbo, The Wolf and kev from Blackfive for this great event. If you're in the Denver area come by and look us up at the Blackfive booth on the 4th. Rumor has it there will be a lot of great people coming and going (present company definitely excluded).

As we celebrate the Independence of our great nation take 4 minutes to watch this video if you haven't seen it already. Then take as many minutes as you can to remember all of those who have given their lives in service to this nation, those who have served and those who are serving. All of those men and women DESERVE some of your time today. They DESERVE some of your time EVERY day.

Gathering of Mustangs and Legends Flag Jump

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Smoke and mirrors in the Khyber Valley - Afghanistan/Pakistani Border Region

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Tue, 01 Jul 2008 20:38:07 -0500

I'll file this under "interesting" and digusting. I don't know anything about this author but I do know that articles he's written in the past were "generally" substantiated by sources I know in that region.

From Asia Times Online:

Smoke and mirrors in the Khyber Valley
By Syed Saleem Shahzad

KARACHI - After a 10-hour operation at the weekend, Pakistan said that paramilitary forces had reclaimed the strategic Khyber Agency from Taliban militants, at the same time implying to Washington that the country is serious about going after the Taliban.

The Khyber Agency borders Afghanistan and is a vital transit point for North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) supplies going into Nangarhar province of that country.

But while pockets of Taliban were chased from some of their hideouts, the operation was directed against the wrong area and the wrong people, underscoring the government's reluctance for direct confrontation with the Pakistani Taliban.

Intrigue and deception
Riding with the paramilitary convoys was Haji Namdar, the chief of the self-proclaimed pro-Taliban organization Amal Bil Maroof Nahi Anil Munkir that is based in Khyber Agency. His presence was meant to be a secret as his organization was supposed to be one of the targets of the operation.

He was taken along to ensure that encounters with militants were kept to a minimum, as was the case - only four people were arrested and none killed.

Haji Namdar is a highly controversial character. As a believer in the Salafi strain of Islam he was tapped up by the Taliban and al-Qaeda to be their point man to help them establish a foothold in the Khyber Agency so that they could attack NATO supply lines. Haji Namdar agreed, then in April he betrayed the Taliban to US intelligence for a reward of US$150,000. (See Taliban bitten by a snake in the grass Asia Times Online, April 26, 2008.)

Within weeks, Haji Namdar was targeted in a suicide attack, but escaped unhurt. And on Monday, he once again avoided injury when one of his offices on the outskirts of Peshawar in North-West Frontier Province (NWFP) bordering Khyber Agency was fired on by missiles. Seven other people were killed.

The weekend's military operations were directed primarily against two organizations - Lashkar-i-Islam led by a bus cleaner turned commander, Mangal Bagh, and a Sufi organization, Ansar ul-Islam, besides Haji Namdar's group.

The rationale for the operation was said to be that these organizations were Taliban franchises and were trying to Talibanize Khyber Agency and the adjacent city of Peshawar.

More pertinent were US concerns over NATO's supply lines. The decision to go ahead with the operation was a pledge by US President George W Bush to President Pervez Musharraf to ensure the delivery of four F-16 aircraft to Pakistan. The issue was also on top of the agenda when the head of the NATO force in Afghanistan, General David McKiernan, met former Pakistani ambassador to Washington and present advisor to the government in Islamabad on national security, retired Major General Mehmood Ali Durrani, last Friday.

The groups targeted, though, are mainly sectarian with no affiliation to the Taliban - they are sympathetic at most. This has led to speculation that the military is simply trying to buy time from Washington while avoiding direct confrontation with the "real Taliban".

The fact is, after the Taliban were betrayed by Haji Namdar in April their central power now lies in the South Waziristan tribal area, the Swat Valley and Darra Adam Khail in NWFP.

Nevertheless, the military excursion into Khyber Agency did provide the Pakistani Taliban with a golden opportunity. One of its key leaders, Baitullah Mehsud, who is said to be behind the first attack against Haji Namdar, used the occasion to appeal to non-Taliban militants in Khyber Agency for their support.

Mehsud also said he would break all peace agreements with the government and that he would send attackers into other provinces as a response to any real moves by the government to target the Taliban.

Islamabad is under intense pressure from Washington to destroy the Taliban bases inside Pakistan that supply the insurgency in Afghanistan and to stem the easy flow of Taliban fighters across the border.

The coalition government, only in office for a matter of months, is already on the brink of collapse and the last thing it wants now is the added problem of full-out operations against militants - these have in the past proved highly unpopular and seldom achieved their goals.

Similarly, the Taliban are heavily engaged in Afghanistan and they do not want the distraction of having to fight battles in Pakistan.

The result is charades such as the weekend's Khyber Agency incident in which all sides, including Washington, appear to be satisfied.

Syed Saleem Shahzad is Asia Times Online's Pakistan Bureau Chief. He can be reached at saleem_shahzad2002@yahoo.com

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173rd, 2-503 - Awards Demonstrate Valor of "The Rock"

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 17:00:00 -0500

I cannot help but wonder just how many Americans are aware of our Armed Forces deployed to northeast Afghanistan. My experience talking with the public is that the answer is "not many". What a damn shame! When I received the following link from LTC Ostlund "Rock 6" today even I was stunned.

AWARDED:

Silver Stars - 6

Bronze Stars with Valor - 48

ARCOMs with Valor - over 140

Purple Hearts - 98

SUBMITTED FOR APPROVAL:

More than 150 other awards for valor have been submitted for approval — including two for the Medal of Honor, three of for the Distinguished Service Cross and three more for Silver Stars.

And 950 engagements with the enemy in the past 14 months.

From Stars and Stripes

Awards demonstrate valor of ‘The Rock’

By Kent Harris, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Sunday, June 29, 2008

LTC Ostlund awards Bronze Star with Valor to SPC Jonathan Smiley - photo by Kent Harris

CAMP BLESSING, Afghanistan — Command Sgt. Major Bradley Meyers doesn’t seem surprised by his battalion’s performance in Kunar Province over the last 14 months.

"I think that soldiers will meet expectations," the top enlisted soldier in the 2nd Battalion, 503rd Infantry Regiment said. "If you train them properly, they’ll do just fine."

"Just fine," in this case, might be an understatement.

Soldiers from "The Rock" have been awarded six Silver Stars. Forty-eight have earned Bronze Stars with valor. More than 140 Army Commendation Medals with valor have been approved. Ninety-eight Purple Hearts have been awarded. More than 150 other awards for valor have been submitted for approval — including two for the Medal of Honor, three of for the Distinguished Service Cross and three more for Silver Stars.

The numbers are a testament to the fierce fighting the battalion has seen in Afghanistan, where insurgent attacks have become both more numerous and more brazen over the past year.

The battalion has been involved in about 950 engagements with the enemy during its stint in Afghanistan. Fifteen soldiers from the unit and two Marines working in the province have died during the rotation. About two dozen members of the Afghan National Army, Afghan National Police and Afghan Border Police have also been killed in the line of duty.

Meyers, who joined the battalion during its last tour in Afghanistan, said 2-503 has aggressively interacted with the local population during both of its stints in country.

"Get out in the battle space, hook up with the local population and maintain relations with the locals," he said. "When you do that, you’re going to end up running into the enemy."

"We’re both fighting for the human terrain," Lt. Col. Bill Ostlund, the battalion commander, said. "We go about it in different ways and for much different reasons. But we and the enemy both need the support of the local population."

The unit operates in the low hills and mountains near this outpost in the Pech River Valley in eastern Afghanistan. The rugged border with Pakistan has long been a hideout and transit route for Taliban and other fighters in Afghanistan.

And while the fight has intensified in southern Afghanistan, the combat has been steady and thick here.

Staff Sgt. Brandon Thomas, a member of Company A, has received three Purple Hearts during the rotation. He’s been wounded in the shin, head and inner thigh. He received the Army Commendation Medal with valor recently, but said he wasn’t any different from any other soldier in the battalion.

"In my opinion, a valor award is just an act of stupidity viewed by others as heroism," he said with a half-smile. "I guess I never learned to find cover in basic training."

A group of soldiers standing around him when he said that all laughed and shook their heads. Several of them had also earned medals with valor during the tour.

"Unfortunately, we don’t get the respect and attention that soldiers fighting in Iraq do," Thomas said, turning more serious. "But we’ve been fighting every day."

"We have a pretty humble group of guys," Ostlund said. "They don’t talk about themselves much. Some of them have seen as much combat as anyone in the Army."

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173rd, 2-503 - Silver Stars Awarded to Six of "The Rock's" Soldiers

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:36:26 -0500

From Stars and Stripes

By Kent Harris, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Sunday, June 29, 2008

Six soldiers assigned to 2nd Battalion, 503rd Infantry Regiment have received Silver Stars during the unit’s tour in Afghanistan. A brief look at their actions, according to the narratives submitted for the awards:

Staff Sgt. Robert J. Smith and Sgt. Matthew D. Coulter earned their medals on July 5, 2007, during an air assault by soldiers from Company A into the village of Tsangar.

Smith, acting as a platoon sergeant for the mission, organized the defense of his unit and an Afghan National Army contingent that came under attack away from the main company element. After evacuating wounded soldiers, Smith’s squad came under attack again. He directed the perimeter defense "without regard to the hail of enemy fire and RPG strikes only feet from his position."

Coulter called in strikes by French Mirage fighter jets in the initial contact and later directed artillery strikes to suppress enemy fire and "exposed himself to intense enemy fire in order to maintain observation of direct fire and ensure his fellow Paratroopers received the most accurate and timely fires."

First Lt. Matthew Ferrara and Spc. Jason Baldwin of Company C were honored for their efforts during an attack by insurgents on Aug. 22 on the Ranch House outpost. A numerically superior enemy force almost overran the compound before the attackers were repelled.

Ferrara maintained communications with his headquarters even after an rocket-propelled grenade took out his antenna. He then directed A-10 fire against posts on base that enemy forces had overrun and directed an offensive against insurgents once reinforcements arrived.

Baldwin protected Ferrara and the command center by firing his 60 mm mortar at the advancing enemy and tossing hand grenades at enemy forces that had advanced to within 10 meters of his position. "He acted without regard for his own life, but with incredible courage and quick thinking that destroyed a quickly advancing enemy force…," according to the narrative.

Ferrara was later killed in an ambush.

First Lt. Gregory Ambrosia, executive officer of Company A, led a platoon-size element during a night assault into the upper Watapur Valley on Sept. 25. The platoon’s position was attacked in the morning and Ambrosia lobbed several hand grenades at enemy positions before ordering five smoke grenades to mark U.S. positions. He then directed repeated artillery fire and Apache helicopter attacks "while receiving intense enemy fire directed at his command post."

Staff Sgt. Erick Gallardo’s platoon from Company B was providing support for other elements when it was ambushed on Oct. 25. Two of his soldiers were immediately hit. Gallardo led his team to the wounded soldiers and was struck in the helmet by an AK-47 round.

He directed suppressing fire and continued to move toward the enemy and his fallen soldiers, tossing hand grenades.

He then treated one wounded soldier while two other soldiers fought off insurgents trying to carry away another wounded soldier. Gallardo then treated that soldier and coordinated the platoon’s defense and evacuation of five wounded soldiers.

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173rd ABCT~101st Honors two Sky Soldiers

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Sun, 29 Jun 2008 16:14:32 -0500

173rd ABCT~101st Honors two Sky Soldiers

http://longislandgirl.vox.com/library...

101st honors two 'Sky' soldiers By STAFF SGT. BRANDON AIRD, 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team NANGARHAR PROVINCE, Afghanistan — Two Sky soldiers from the 173rd Airborne Brigade Combat Team were announced the winners of the 101st Airborne Division Soldier and Non-commissioned Officer of the...

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173rd INF Airborne BDE Coming - 6/4 Cav Going

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 23:36:29 -0500

GOOD NEWS!!!

The 173rd has begun to redeploy. I've already posted about that here and here. In the coming weeks the remainder of the Brigade's Battalions will redeploy to Italy and Germany. Now that deserves a resounding HOOOOOOOAH!!!!

Great job Soldiers! Great job! It's been more than an honor to support the 2/503 Battalion during this 15 month long mission. It was impossible some days to deal with not being able to support the entire Brigade. We may not have sent you care packages but you were ALL always in our thoughts and prayers. We are grateful for EVERY one of you. You've all been through hell and back but you know that better than I. For those who I have gotten to know via email - THANK YOU for sharing precious moments with me on-line. I know communication was more than difficult most days and nights. Thank you for letting me get to know about you and your families. I can only hope to have the opportunity to meet you one day. Regardless, always know how PROUD I am of ALL of you.

The losses have been great. Some have been personal even to me. I will continue to honor and remember all of those who gave their lives in service to our great nation on this deployment. May their families know that I remember them by name and not by a number. I cannot begin to imagine your depth of loss. But know that your men gave their all with dignity, honor and conviction. May they all rest in peace forever.

AND IN OTHER NEWS

The 6/4 Cav out of Ft. Hood, TX (part of The 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade Combat Team) cased its colors on 17 June 2008 as they began their deployment to replace part of the 173rd ABCT. From the Killeen Daily Herald:

The 1st Infantry Division's 3rd Brigade Combat Team has brought several firsts to Fort Hood: the first light infantry unit to grace the post's heavy stomping grounds and the first full brigade to deploy to Afghanistan from Central Texas.

And...

"We are going to where the war started, where the Taliban and al-Qaida still contest against us on a daily basis," he (Col. John M. Spiszer, the brigade's commander) said. "Our actions will continue to ensure that they cannot bring the fight here and that they cannot continue to prevent progress, peace and stability in Afghanistan."

6/4 Cav Casing the Colors June 2008

A dear friend of mine (who chooses to remain annonymous) and I had the great honor of going to Ft. Hood to meet with the 6/4 Cav First Command Team (not all present in the following photo).

6-4 Cav 1st Command Team

My friend and I are going to be working to "rally the civilian troops" to get support over to these Warriors. If anyone's interested drop me an email at tankerbabelc@gmail.com. The majority of the Soldiers in this unit are single so we're going to need lots of letter writers and care package support. We've already begun working with the FRGs on Christmas "stockings" that will be filled with lots of goodies for each Soldier.

BE SAFE WARRIORS. You will be in our thoughts and prayers.

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173rd Blue Star Dad Tom Lynch - An Inspiration, Role Model and Troop Supporter Extraordinaire

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Sat, 28 Jun 2008 21:36:06 -0500

I first posted about Tom Lynch here. Well, Tom's at it again. What a guy! What a dad! What a great American!

Read the great story below then go here to make a donation to support Tom's walk and all that he and the people of Cape Code are doing to show our troops that we DO SUPPORT THEM.

From The Cape Cod Times

Trekking for the troops

By ROBERT GOLD

rgold@capecodonline.com

June 28, 2008

Tom Lynch (left) - photo by Tom Blackmore

Tom Lynch needed to do something.

With his son worlds away in Afghanistan, the Sandwich man needed to burn off his "nervous energy."

He couldn't protect his 20-year-old son, Daniel, serving in the U.S. Army. But he could help soldiers, like his son, serving overseas.

"I don't know that any dad out there wouldn't want to trade places with his kid or protect him," said Lynch, walking along Route 6A in Brewster yesterday afternoon.

But this wasn't an ordinary walk. It was part of a three-day trek across Cape Cod, raising money for U.S. soldiers.

And it gave him a way to reach out to his son, serving in the Army's 173rd Airborne Brigade based out of Italy.

"It's just a great way to bond with him," Lynch said.

Lynch started walking 8:30 a.m. Thursday near the Bourne Bridge. Traveling completely on Route 6A, Lynch is raising money for the local group, Cape Cod Cares For Our Troops, which sends weekly care packages to soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan.The group also sends supplies to medical and dental clinics, schools and orphanages in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Tom said part of the money raised will fund a welcome-home party for the 173rd Airborne Brigade. Lynch didn't take pledges before the 60-mile walk. His hope was to get people thinking about the troops during the always busy summer season.

Lynch had help.

His brother, Steve, drove a pickup truck ahead of him, making sure he made each stretch safely.

A handful of others took turns walking with Lynch.

Along the way, he drew plenty of thumbs up from passing motorists.

"It's been all good," Lynch said.

Halfway to Provincetown, Lynch said he was holding up, despite humid weather threatening to sap his energy.

Lynch made it to Yarmouthport Thursday and Eastham yesterday.

The 47-year-old had some practice before braving Route 6A. He took a similar trek, walking to Boston from Bourne in March. That trip, his first lengthy walk, left his feet riddled with blisters.

But this time, after his hour count reached double digits, the blisters weren't making a comeback.

Dylan DeSilva, who started Cape Cod Cares For Our Troops three years ago when he was 12,, walked 5 miles with Lynch Thursday.

"I was kind of surprised he wanted to walk again so soon (after the March walk)," DeSilva said.

But Lynch wouldn't be slowed down. Not with Daniel so far away. "He's probably thinking, 'I didn't know the old man had it in him,'" Lynch said.

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More Soldiers from 173rd ABCT Return to Vicenza after 15 Month Deployment to Afghanistan

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 20:16:36 -0500

H/T to Long Island Girl

Fifteen LONG months! Welcome Home Soldiers! Welcome Home! Looking forward to a steady stream of you getting back to Italy and Germany in the coming weeks.

173RD RETURNS

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Afghanistan: Legality Of 'Hot Pursuit' Into Pakistan Debated

nobody@vox.com(Tankerbabelc) — Fri, 27 Jun 2008 09:16:43 -0500

Last week, Karzai insisted that his country has the right to chase Taliban fighters who flee into Pakistan's tribal regions after they carry out attacks in Afghanistan.

"Afghanistan has the right of self-defense. When [insurgents] cross the territory from Pakistan to come and kill Afghans and to kill coalition troops, it exactly gives us the right to go back and do the same," Karzai said.

I'm not going to hold my breath - after all these are just words - but...one can hope, right?

From RadioFreeEurope

By Ron Synovitz

Afghan President Hamid Karzai's threat to send troops after Taliban militants in neighboring Pakistan has kindled debate about cross-border military incursions and international law.

Experts argue there are two claims under international law that might justify an operation inside Pakistan by the Afghan National Army. One is a country's "right of hot pursuit." Another justification is a country's right to self-defense.

Last week, Karzai insisted that his country has the right to chase Taliban fighters who flee into Pakistan's tribal regions after they carry out attacks in Afghanistan.

"Afghanistan has the right of self-defense. When [insurgents] cross the territory from Pakistan to come and kill Afghans and to kill coalition troops, it exactly gives us the right to go back and do the same," Karzai said.

Karzai said Afghan forces would kill specific Taliban leaders in Pakistan's tribal regions who are accused of planning and organizing cross-border attacks into Afghanistan.

Islamabad has condemned Karzai's remarks as "irresponsible," saying any incursion by Afghan forces would violate Pakistan's sovereignty and territorial integrity.

Pakistani Foreign Minister Shah Mehmood Qureshi described Karzai's threat as "illegal" under international law, saying the only way to combat extremism in the border region is by noninterference in each others' internal affairs.

Kurdish Parallel

In Kabul, political analysts like Rashid Waziri are arguing that Afghanistan does have a legal right to attack and kill militants in the tribal regions if Pakistan fails to stop them.

"We have the right to strike our enemies inside Pakistan or its tribal territories. The Turkish government gave itself the right to bomb and target Kurdish rebels in northern Iraq and to eliminate their bases. So this is an international right. And everybody can benefit from it," Waziri said.

But Jim Denselow, an expert on defense issues at Kings College London, says there is no valid legal comparison between the Afghan-Pakistan crisis and Turkish incursions into northern Iraq.

"The key difference is that Turkey is justifying its actions in northern Iraq along the lines of previous agreements it had with Saddam Hussein's regime. [Those agreements were] in terms of the 'right of hot pursuit' of Kurdish rebels into Iraqi territory -- which, of course, hasn't been sovereign Iraqi territory since 1991 when the no-fly zones were created and the autonomous entity, which is the Kurdish regional government, was essentially born," Denselow said.

"So that's a very specific case. A very unique case of a bilateral agreement between two countries, one of which wasn't even totally sovereign. And, of course, [there is] the fact that Turkey is an incredibly strong power vis-a-vis a weakening Iraqi one."

In addition to Turkey, the right to "hot pursuit" has been raised by Colombia to justify air strikes against FARC rebels fleeing into neighboring Ecuador. Israel has used the same argument to justify military incursions into the Gaza Strip. And in 2000, the Democratic Republic of the Congo and Uganda approached the International Court of Justice over the issue when the Ugandan Army claimed the right of "hot pursuit" for its forces to go after militants in Congo.

Law Of 'Hot Pursuit'

Nick Grono, the deputy president of operations for the International Crisis Group think tank, agrees that those cases differ from Afghanistan's situation and that the doctrine of "hot pursuit" probably isn't applicable for Afghan incursions into Pakistan.

Grono notes that "hot pursuit" is a concept under international law that originated out of the laws of the sea.

On land, he tells RFE/RL, the right to "hot pursuit" has evolved and been recognized under international law as the chasing of armed aggressors across international borders.

"I don't think this is a case of 'hot pursuit' that we are talking about [in Pakistan's tribal regions]. Historically, [it] means you are pursuing a fugitive. The doctrine of hot pursuit comes from the law of the sea. And it used to be chasing a fleeing ship, for instance, or chasing someone who retreated into another country," Grono says.

"The conditions applying to hot pursuit are pretty restrictive," he continues. "That doesn't appear to be what Karzai was talking about. He was talking not so much about pursuing someone as going across the border to hit Taliban leaders who are enjoying safe haven in Pakistan. I suspect that what he was looking at was more a case of preemptive self-defense."

International law on a country's right to self-defense stems from Article 51 of the UN Charter and decisions made by the International Court of Justice.

"There is a provision under international law for self defense," Grono says. "The way it works under international law is that there is a right of preventive self-defense if there is a very immediate threat -- and it is an overwhelming threat -- and if the only possible response is to strike first."

Legal scholars in the U.S. military have had studies published by the U.S. Defense Department that explore the legalities of antiterrorism operations under both the doctrines of "hot pursuit" and self-defense.

Those studies note that other legal justifications for the use of cross-border military force include invitation, peace-time reprisals, protection of a country's own citizens, and humanitarian intervention.

Ultimately, military incursions must be consistent with international law -- as defined by the International Court of Justice. Otherwise, as one study published in 1989 by the U.S. Department of Defense concludes, "those acting to preserve the rule of law in the face of terrorist threats will become indistinguishable from the evils" they seek to prevent.

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